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Originally posted by ZooGraf

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Originally posted by Russia Znachi ima edno mnogo vazno pravilo pri vodenje spor - se vika DOKAZUVANJE! 1. Faktot deka nekoi saka da sprechi nekogo da premine edna reka ABSOLUTNO potvrduva shto toi nekoi se naodja na edna strana ot istata reka i e vo MOZNOST da ja premine. 2. Ako nekoi tvrdi deka istiot koi shto moral da ja premine rekata veke ZIVEEL ot drugata strana na rekata mora da go DOKAZE! 3. PAK ke povtoram i drugiot vazen moment povrzan so vostanieto - vostanali VLASI i BALGARI. Tochka. Ako NEKAKVI (DORI I MAL BROI) kumani ziveeli na teritorijata na Vizantija vo vreme na vostanieto nema nikakva prichina da ne bidat spomnati VO BAREM eden izvor kako vostanali PROTIV vlastta na imperatorot. Takvi informacii NEMA vo nikoi izvor. Migraciite i zaseluvanjata na teritorijata na imperijata bili po pravilo povrzuvani so natisk ot strana na novi narodi v posoka iztok-zapad. Vo toi moment NIKOI ne deluvaal natisk v/u kumanite da se zaselvat na teritorijata na Vizantija kako shto se sluchilo po-docna po prichina na tatarite. 4. Site izvori koi shto spomnuvat ucestvo na kumani po vreme na vostanieto eksplicitno spomnuvat preminuvane na reka Dunav. 5. Po vreme na vostanieto kumanite ziveeli na obshirna teritorija ot Dnestr do Don kade shto imali 2 drzavi i nema NIKAKVA informacija za tehna migracija na zapad CHAK do idvaneto na tatarite.

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Znaci po tebe, dinastijata na Asen, Terter, Sisman za koji mnogu istoricari tvrdat deka se od Kumansko poreklo (ovie istoricari ne se Donski) i kade golem del od aristokratijata e isto od Kumansko poreklo, toa ne e dovolno da dokaze prisustvo na Kumani vo Bugarija? Fascinantno!

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Originally posted by jingibi
posle velime deka da recime eden Samuil ili Sv. Kliment e del od nasata istorija Не ние, целиот свет. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliment_Ohridski[/url] [url]http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/saintc3h.htm[/url] [url]http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/clement_of_ohrid[/url] [url]http://days.ru/Trop/IT1255.htm[/url]

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Originally posted by manhatten
Македонија, чудна страна, нема да бидит гр'чка она! Шума и гора, и планина, самиј камен на таја страна, птица и риба во Вардар река, живо и м'ртво на свои крака ке станат и ке дадат ответ на цела Европа, на цел свет: Ја Македонка сум, Македонец сум ја, Македонци живејат во таја страна! Рајко Жинзифов, "Гуслјар во собор", 1862

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Originally posted by manhatten
Македонија, чудна страна, нема да бидит гр'чка она! Шума и гора, и планина, самиј камен на таја страна, птица и риба во Вардар река, живо и м'ртво на свои крака ке станат и ке дадат ответ на цела Европа, на цел свет: Ја Македонка сум, Македонец сум ја, Македонци живејат во таја страна! Рајко Жинзифов, "Гуслјар во собор", 1862

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Originally posted by mitko2848
...во оригиналот пише...

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Originally posted by manhatten
Македонија, чудна страна, нема да бидит гр'чка она! Шума и гора, и планина, самиј камен на таја страна, птица и риба во Вардар река, живо и м'ртво на свои крака ке станат и ке дадат ответ на цела Европа, на цел свет: Ја Македонка сум, Македонец сум ја, Македонци живејат во таја страна! Рајко Жинзифов, "Гуслјар во собор", 1862

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Гусляр в собор "O, гърци, гърци, чуйте нас, чуйте наш народен глас! Знайме ми, разбираме ми злобна цел, коя криете ви. Досега не погърчихте нас, занапред храбро чекаме вас. Време ет дошло, не ет далеч, с остро ли перо, с остър ли меч ке делим, ке ся караме ми в сегашни дни и в подирни дни, в широко поле,- в планина за народност и за правина, за бащина, за майчин язик... Охрид и Търнов веч дали вик. Македония, чудна страна, нема да бидит гърчка она! Шума и гора, и планина, самий камен на тая страна, птица и риба в Вардар река, живо, мъртво на свои крака ке станат и ке дадат ответ на цела Европа, на цел свет: Я българка сум. българин сум я, българе живеят в тая страна!" Так ся кълнат, гласи вишат сложно, дружно старци, момци. И казаха да запишат тие думи за потомци. А невинните девойки заиграха си народно, накитени глави с вейки, с цвете полско, домородно. Из них една македонка, хубавица милолика, светлокоса, чърноока, с снага стройна, белолика, запеяла,загукала - - исто славей, малка птица, запрусала, заиграла како полска яребица. "Я сум млада бугарка, име ми ет Милкана, я сум чиста славянка, в Бугария родена от бугарски род и бугарски плод. Майка ми ет бугарка, керка на чист бугарин, имам кума бугарка. вуйко им ет бугарин от бугарски род и бугарски плод. Любам я бугарина, юнака я милувам, свършена за Драгана и ке да ся омажам. Гърк за мене враг а бугарин - драг. На мой род ке придадам неколку си синчиня, ке кърстам, ке израстам вси чисти славянчиня. от бугарски род и бугарски плод. Тежко се закълнувам, ке ги кърстам бугарски, с иминя ке назовам не г-ърчки, не немечки. Гърк за меяе враг. а бугарин - драг. Име нека ет Боян. Здраве, Драган ил' Стоян. а не гърчко Ксенофон или друго - Демофон. Чуждо за чужд род, свое за свой род- При моя умирачка клетва я ке оставам, при земна ми отлъчка сину си ке зарачам от бугарски род да оставит плод." А млади не мълчат и младите пеят и нихното сърдце се распламенило, . и нихните чувства веч не немеят, българско слово в них мисли оживило. И гледаят они, че безплодна ет нива, пълна сос троскот, она със търнйе расла, при диво оранйе, при работа дива зърно мъртвеяло и сила му гасла. И видеха на дедови им слепенйе и нихно страданье, глупаво търпенйе, че стари години, златното време мина с съдни мъки и с тежко бреме. Пак сос гуслярът заедно грмогласно песън запеаха, та песня последна, и ръци ои дали сложно, согласно ся кълнат с душа за свобода жедна. "С руйно вино домородно нек наполним до три чаши, братя редом, братя, сложно нек ги земим в ръци наши. Сме славяне как московци. сърби, чехи и поляци, чърногорци, ерцеговци и хървати, и бощняци. Братя, вече дошла доба, да испием първа чаша не за завист, не за злоба, но за братство, дружба наша. Треба вера, твърда клетва. да сме верни ми до гроба, да сме чисти като жертва. като в майчина утроба. Нек испием втора чаша, че време ет пак наново да загърмит в земля наша матерно ни, живо слово. Нек ся ширит, ся раздава в България горна, долна. от Вардара до Дунава дума свободна, народна. Айде сега трета чаша нек испием ми до капка, нрави ни, народност наша да не газит нога вражска. Гологлави! В ръци шапки! Обърнете дно на чаши! Как що капат тие капки. так да капнат врази наши!"

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Originally posted by DJ_SHEMA
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/macedonia_1849.jpg 1849, American publisher.

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
"Вugarskite carstva se sosema drugi tvorbi i nemaat nikakov kontinuitet so denesna Bugarija." Цитат!!!: Хайдути Баща и син Я надуй, дядо, кавала, след теб да викна - запея песни юнашки, хайдушки, песни за вехти войводи - за Чавдар страшен хайдутин, за Чавдар вехта войвода - синът на Петка Страшника! Да чуят моми и момци по сборове и по седенки; юнаци по планините, и мъже в хладни механи: какви е деца раждала, раждала, ражда и сега българска майка юнашка; какви е момци хранила, хранила, храни и днеска нашата земя хубава! Ах, че мен, дядо, додея любовни песни да слушам, а сам за тегло да пея, за тегло, дядо, сюрмашко, и аз свойте си кахъри, кахъри, черни ядове! Тъжно ми й, дядо, жално ми й, ала засвири - не бой се, - аз нося сърце юнашко, глас имам меден загорски, та'ко ме никой не чуе, песента ще се пронесе по гори и по долища - горите ще я поемат, долища ще я повторят, и тъгата ми ще мине, тъгата, дядо, от сърце! Пък който иска, да тегли - тежко му нима ще кажа? Юнакът тегло не търпи - ала съм думал и думам: Блазе му, който умее за чест и воля да мъсти - доброму добро да прави, лошия с ножа по глава, - пък ще си викна песента! http://www.hristobotev.com/index.html А овде види ликовите на овие кои со скверната си уста велиш, дека немало да постојат: http://www.hristobotev.com/menu_6.html А Паисий некой од Русија му плати во Хилендарскиот манастир да напише: История Словено-Болгарскаја Какво сими неначетен Сатанико.... жал ми е за тебе

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
"Вugarskite carstva se sosema drugi tvorbi i nemaat nikakov kontinuitet so denesna Bugarija." Цитат!!!: Хайдути Баща и син Я надуй, дядо, кавала, след теб да викна - запея песни юнашки, хайдушки, песни за вехти войводи - за Чавдар страшен хайдутин, за Чавдар вехта войвода - синът на Петка Страшника! Да чуят моми и момци по сборове и по седенки; юнаци по планините, и мъже в хладни механи: какви е деца раждала, раждала, ражда и сега българска майка юнашка; какви е момци хранила, хранила, храни и днеска нашата земя хубава! Ах, че мен, дядо, додея любовни песни да слушам, а сам за тегло да пея, за тегло, дядо, сюрмашко, и аз свойте си кахъри, кахъри, черни ядове! Тъжно ми й, дядо, жално ми й, ала засвири - не бой се, - аз нося сърце юнашко, глас имам меден загорски, та'ко ме никой не чуе, песента ще се пронесе по гори и по долища - горите ще я поемат, долища ще я повторят, и тъгата ми ще мине, тъгата, дядо, от сърце! Пък който иска, да тегли - тежко му нима ще кажа? Юнакът тегло не търпи - ала съм думал и думам: Блазе му, който умее за чест и воля да мъсти - доброму добро да прави, лошия с ножа по глава, - пък ще си викна песента! http://www.hristobotev.com/index.html А овде види ликовите на овие кои со скверната си уста велиш, дека немало да постојат: http://www.hristobotev.com/menu_6.html А Паисий некой од Русија му плати во Хилендарскиот манастир да напише: История Словено-Болгарскаја Какво сими неначетен Сатанико.... жал ми е за тебе

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
Na Vardarski glupotevini ne moze da se odgovori. Poentata na stixotvorbata e: Pisana e mnogu pred Risko turskata vojna ot svetovniot poet Hristo Botev. Pisano e na Bugarska hartija, na Bugarski jazik (vidi tamo so Bold "българска майка юнашка"). Poentata za Paisij e deka e napisana isrtorijata uste porano od sekakvi ruski proekti. Poentata e deka drzavnite granici na Balkano se sekogas crtani nadvor. Poentata e deka borbata za Bugaska samostojna crkva ne e proekt na Rusija a e domorodna borba, koja koj zna zosto zemala ne drugo ime, toku Bugasko za da se oglasi (mnogu pred Rusko turskata vojna). Bugarskite pesnopojci, poeti, pisateli koi tvorili na vreme na prostvoto ne ja prasali Rusija za sekoj red kakvo ime da postava vnatre. Ili mislis prasali Ruskite carovi po telefonot:)?. Poentata e, deka Bugarski, Bugarska, Bugarsko kako distinkt etnikum se spomnuva niz celoto tursko ropstvo bez da ima drzava. Drzavata e politicka edinica, a ne samosves. Tuka debatata e za sebeusekjaneto na lugete, ili ne?

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Там, де Вардар през полята мътен лей се и шуми, де на Рила грей главата, и при Охридски вълни.

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Originally posted by Satanico Pandemonium A be , poentata e bas taa, da ti nemas razbrano nisto! Ova gore sto go napisa bas ja potvrduva mojata teorija. Ne znam sto si po profesija, ama ocigledno vleces mnogu poveke kon umetnosta i cuvstvata nego kon faktite. Si mislis deka lugjeto od visoki celi nacii stvorile, i deka imeto Bugarin odsekogas edno te isto oznacuvalo. A da sednes, da procitas nezavisna studija kako DENESNITE NACII se stvoreni, ne biva toa. Ne zemaj primer za Makedonija, Bugarija ili Srbija, protictaj opst tekst za naciite kako se sozdadeni i ke ti se razjasni. Naciite se uste eden priroden tek od vladaenjeto na odredeni lugje. Uste edna forma na crtanje na granici koja se pokazala uspesna da se motiviraat lugjeto zad odredena ideja. Do togas identifikacijata (koja e tolku neracionalna a tolku potrebna na sekoj coek) bila po razlicni osnovi, no najcesto po religijata. Iminjata se geografski poimi. Nacija se znae kako se zosdava, vladatel prvo, pa odredeni intelektualci ke prifatat toa, pisateli, umetnici i posle preku jazik, skolo se siri cuvstvoto na site i generalno se postignuva celta edna nacija edna drzava,odlicen nacin da se zacvrstat drzavite i vlasta. Rusite koga resile da stvorat Bugarija samo zaradi nivni celi, se znae sto napraile. Odbrale talentirani i gi skoluvale vo "svoj" duh. So Miladinovi istoto go napravile. Hm, da vidime, Botev, ah da, surprise , surpise coekot vo RUSIJA se skoluva. Da, da... drugo i ne se ocekuva. Sto ocekuvas toj da bide koga vo toa vreme na Rusija i gori pod noze Bugarija da sozdade zaradi svoj celi? Normalno deka poetot ke se voodusevi deak sozdava nesto novo , nacija. No ne gi imas prasano nepismenite seljaci koj ne znaele ni koj im e vladatel kako se cuvstvuale. Sozdavanjeto na Bugarija i nejzinata vrhuska i intelektualna klasa e direkten proizvod na Rusija. Ni eden pisatel koj ke napisel protiv Bugarija ne ke mozel da opstane tamu. Da imal nekoj sto bil za Turskoto ili Grcko ili nesto sto ne e vo interes na Rusija ti garantiram ne ke postoel. PA vide, edno vreme posle Aleksandar III nemozevte be princ da imate posto nikoj ne sakase da bide ako ne e odobren od Rusite. Vo sekoja pora od novosodadenata Ruska gubernija Rusite imaa prv i posleden zbor. Botev samo go potvrduva deka ste Ruska tvorba za nejzinite imperijalisticki celi. Nisto drugo. Na Rusite da ne im bese po merka da postoite, nemase da postoite. Kako sto gornata mapa kazuva. Vie ste direkten proizvod na Ruskite interesi, nacija nastanata na hartija.

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata Ne zaboruvame za toa. Brkate 3 ppojmi vo vardarski turluguvec. Nacija ne e isto na narodnost(etnikum), ne e isto na drzava. Nemase potreba od dolgata lekcija. Koga jas sum studiral za formiraneto i konsolidiraneto na naciite (Bismark, germanskata e tipicen primer) ti moze i da si odil prav pod masata uste. Znaci, od site podatoci (narodno tvorcestvo, poezija, proza, publicistika) lici deka na Balkanskite niz tekot na turskoto ropstvo imalo soznanie na znacajna grupa luge da pripagat kon etnikum (obicai, pesni, jazik, religija) koi pravilno ili ne (no koj e ovde da kaza koe e "pavilno" i na kakva kriterija?) koristeli terminot Bugari, Bolgari... Toa e ovde ili tamo prosledeno niz tekot na skoro 500 godini. Vo pocetokot na 19 vek taa masa luge se konsolidira, opismenuva (bez namesata na Rusija, pazete), zamogva se ikonomiceski, i tamo kade ima soznanie za porobenost plus gramotnost plus pari, se zafaka dvizenie za osvoboduvanje (religiozno etnicko, pred se, pod terminot Bugari, dali vi se na vas aresva ova ili ne). Cast od ovaa borba e legalno religiozna i Ekzarhijata e tvorba na Bugarskite hristijani, a ne na Rusija. Po uspesite na legalnata borba i ustvaraneto na Ekzarhijata, se pocnuva i revolucionna dejnost (koja ne sekogas e bila dobredojdena za legaliziranata Ekzarhija koaj se plasela da ne izgubi i toa sto go dobila). No fakt e deka od sporadicnite Bugaski komiti koi niz tekota na robstvoto sekogas setali po sumata so glaven motiv licna odmazda so nalivot na novi obrazovani na zapad Bugari, se konsolidira edno cisto narodno dvizenie, pod etnonumot Bugarsko, i toj proces se zafaka kon krajot na 18 i pocetokot na 19 vek – nema veze so Rusija ili kojsto i vaseto neznaene za toj period nema da go napravi da se izlici. Taka namesto da tresete ovde opsti lekcii za nacii i slicno, poprocetete nesto po materijata za koja zborite. Karavelov, Levski, Karadzata, Botev, Filip Totju, Rakovski i oste tolku deka ako vi gi izredam, ke vi zaboli glavata dokoga im gi procitate samu iminjata sa licnosti domorasli, so izjavena Bugarska etnicka samosves raboteli i se borili niz tekot na 100 godini i bez Rusija ili kojsto. Koga Rusija zafaka Balkanskata ofanziva protiv Turcija, taa doaga da izkoristi edna veke konsolidirana sostojba, so kulminacija Aprilskoto vostanie, koe e dela na Bugarski vojvodi i komiti, so Bugarska organizacija i so Bugarsko finansirane. Vie se razbira i sves nemate za seto toa. I odkade li?

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
"Sto se odnesuva do obicniot selanin toj ke sledese toa sto mu go zboruvaa, kako i sekogas..." Kako i po 1944 vo MK ;).

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• Ako da, sto toa zboruva za taa vekovna svest?
• Ako ne, dali se togas tie lugje (Makedonci) voopsto Bugari?

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata Koga Rusija zafaka Balkanskata ofanziva protiv Turcija, taa doaga da izkoristi edna veke konsolidirana sostojba, so kulminacija Aprilskoto vostanie..

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
"Sto se odnesuva do obicniot selanin toj ke sledese toa sto mu go zboruvaa, kako i sekogas..." Kako i po 1944 vo MK ;). Ne zaboruvame za toa. Brkate 3 ppojmi vo vardarski turluguvec. Nacija ne e isto na narodnost(etnikum), ne e isto na drzava. Nemase potreba od dolgata lekcija. Koga jas sum studiral za formiraneto i konsolidiraneto na naciite (Bismark, germanskata e tipicen primer) ti moze i da si odil prav pod masata uste. Znaci, od site podatoci (narodno tvorcestvo, poezija, proza, publicistika) lici deka na Balkanskite niz tekot na turskoto ropstvo imalo soznanie na znacajna grupa luge da pripagat kon etnikum (obicai, pesni, jazik, religija) koi pravilno ili ne (no koj e ovde da kaza koe e "pavilno" i na kakva kriterija?) koristeli terminot Bugari, Bolgari... Toa e ovde ili tamo prosledeno niz tekot na skoro 500 godini. Vo pocetokot na 19 vek taa masa luge se konsolidira, opismenuva (bez namesata na Rusija, pazete), zamogva se ikonomiceski, i tamo kade ima soznanie za porobenost plus gramotnost plus pari, se zafaka dvizenie za osvoboduvanje (religiozno etnicko, pred se, pod terminot Bugari, dali vi se na vas aresva ova ili ne). Cast od ovaa borba e legalno religiozna i Ekzarhijata e tvorba na Bugarskite hristijani, a ne na Rusija. Po uspesite na legalnata borba i ustvaraneto na Ekzarhijata, se pocnuva i revolucionna dejnost (koja ne sekogas e bila dobredojdena za legaliziranata Ekzarhija koaj se plasela da ne izgubi i toa sto go dobila). No fakt e deka od sporadicnite Bugaski komiti koi niz tekota na robstvoto sekogas setali po sumata so glaven motiv licna odmazda so nalivot na novi obrazovani na zapad Bugari, se konsolidira edno cisto narodno dvizenie, pod etnonumot Bugarsko, i toj proces se zafaka kon krajot na 18 i pocetokot na 19 vek – nema veze so Rusija ili kojsto i vaseto neznaene za toj period nema da go napravi da se izlici. Taka namesto da tresete ovde opsti lekcii za nacii i slicno, poprocetete nesto po materijata za koja zborite. Karavelov, Levski, Karadzata, Botev, Filip Totju, Rakovski i oste tolku deka ako vi gi izredam, ke vi zaboli glavata dokoga im gi procitate samu iminjata sa licnosti domorasli, so izjavena Bugarska etnicka samosves raboteli i se borili niz tekot na 100 godini i bez Rusija ili kojsto. Koga Rusija zafaka Balkanskata ofanziva protiv Turcija, taa doaga da izkoristi edna veke konsolidirana sostojba, so kulminacija Aprilskoto vostanie, koe e dela na Bugarski vojvodi i komiti, so Bugarska organizacija i so Bugarsko finansirane. Vie se razbira i sves nemate za seto toa. I odkade li?

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
Drzavata moze i da se pojavila kako Ruska intervencija. Narodot i etnikumot - NE. Toa e jasno pa ti pisuvaj traktati kolku sakas. Neli Rusite sakaa da sprecat Obedinuvaneto Pajsij zosto napisa Istorija sloveno BUGARSKA, a ne istorija Sloveno-Makedonska, Sloveno-Srpska, Sloveno-Trakijska ili Sloveno Marsianska? Na toa odgovori. I nego li go naucia Rusite? Proveri i koga e napisana i ne mi brkaj ovde Stambolov, koj e eden vek podocna i koj bas gi natera rusite nadvor od Bugarija.

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Originally posted by DJ_SHEMA
Site ovie diskusii i pak nema odgovor, WHERE THE f**k is bulgaria on the map?

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
Drzavata moze i da se pojavila kako Ruska intervencija. Narodot i etnikumot - NE. Toa e jasno pa ti pisuvaj traktati kolku sakas. Neli Rusite sakaa da sprecat Obedinuvaneto Pajsij zosto napisa Istorija sloveno BUGARSKA, a ne istorija Sloveno-Makedonska, Sloveno-Srpska, Sloveno-Trakijska ili Sloveno Marsianska? Na toa odgovori. I nego li go naucia Rusite? Proveri i koga e napisana i ne mi brkaj ovde Stambolov, koj e eden vek podocna i koj bas gi natera rusite nadvor od Bugarija. Neli Rusite sakaa da sprecat Obedinuvaneto na Knezestvoto so Iztocna Rumelija. Koja bese ovaa sila koja nakara dve polovini na eden narod da se soberat? Na toa odgovori. Rusite sekako se macea da go sprecat ovaa? Ako tie napraviha Bugarskata nacija, tie mora da se fakiri! Nacija za tri godini? Pa duri za vasata im bea potrebni 50. Begaj razpravaj ovie po Vardarot ne ceti lekcii na mene, koj si zna istorijata. DJ_SCHEMA, Bugarija e na mapata podolu. Kako drzava a ne kako geografska provincija vo tuga drzava.

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
Ke zboruvame i za Pajsij ne se sekiraj, eden edinstven covek megju Mongolite i Ivan Vazov. Neka Broime:History of the Bulgarian Orthodox ChurchI. Conversion to Christianity of the Bulgarian people and foundation of the Bulgarian Church The Bulgarian Orthodox Church has its origin in the flourishing Christian communities and churches, set up in the Balkan Peninsula as early as the first centuries of the Christian era. The incursions of the Slavs and Proto-Bulgarian in the Balkan lands (6th-7th century) damaged considerably the ecclesiastical organization and created difficulties for the mission of christianization, but were not of a decisive significance for its further development. Byzantine writers testify to many contacts of the Eastern Empire with the new settlers-Slavs and Proto-Bulgarians, as well as to the relations of the conquerors with the christianized native populations. The Christian religion infiltrated the population of Bulgarian Slavs (the ancestors of the Bulgarian people) as early as the 6th and 7th century. The continuous process of Christian influence gradually enfolded the Proto-Bulgarians, too (7th-9th century). The internal development and the international relations of the Slav-Bulgarian State (founded in 681) favored the successful penetration of Christianity, which infiltrated even the Khan's court (9th century). The local population, the Bulgarian Slavs who had already adopted Christianity, the steady contacts with Byzantium, the exchange of prisoners of war, the use of the Greek language and other factors paved the way for the mission of christianization in the First Bulgarian State. Pope Nicholas I was informed that as early as the beginning of the 60s of the 9th century "a great majority of the Bulgarians were converted to Christianity". After the adoption of the Christian faith by Prince Boris I (865), Christianity became the official religion in the Bulgarian State. Joseph Genesius wrote that "elect high clerics were sent from Constantinople to Bulgaria to consolidate the Christian faith there". The word of the Gospel yielded plenty of fruits. Prince Boris was in favour of an enlightened and zealous clergy and an improved and autocephalous church, even with the status of a Patriarchate, witch would be in a position to meet the needs of the time: to help the unification of the people and to promote the cultural advancement of the State, to strengthen the new social order and the sovereignty and prestige of Bulgaria. Bearing all this in mind and using skillfully the historic situation, the favorable conditions and prospects, he started negotiations with Rome, which lasted for three years, then again renewed his old connections with the Byzantine Empire. From October 5, 869 to February 28, 870 an ecclesiastical council was held in Constantinople to discuss Patriarch Photius' question. Here came the Bulgarian envoys, who were welcomed very heartily and with due respect. At a special session (on March 4), with the participation of Rome's envoys and of representatives of the four Eastern Patriarchates, the council discussed the question of church jurisdiction in Bulgarian. After prolonged debates, which disclosed the deepening contradiction between Rome and Constantinople, it was decided that the Bulgarian nation was connected in church matters to the Christians East. That representative forum created on March 4, 870 a separate diocese and laid the foundations of the Bulgarian Church, which was thus bound forever with the Eastern Orthodox community. Chronologically it was the eighth one in succession (after the four Eastern Patriarchates: those of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem, and the three ancient archbishopric of Cyprus, of Sinai and of Georgia) in the then organic community of the Orthodox sister-churches. At the beginning the Bulgarian Church was an autonomous archbishopric under the jurisdiction of the Constantinople Patriarchate, from which it obtained its first primate, its clergy and theological books. It enjoyed, however, a full internal autonomy. The conditions were soon ripe for its flourishing and for its receiving an autocephalous status. II. The Bulgarian Orthodox Church in the middle ages (First and Second Kingdom of Bulgaria) In 886 the most distinguished followers and disciples of the Holy Slav Educators Cyril and Methodius came to Bulgaria. Preslav and Ohrid became literary centers where schools were opened. As a result of their activities there ensued the so-called "Golden Age" of Old Bulgarian literature and learning. As early as the end of the 9th century the Bulgarian language became the official language of the Church and the State. The building of churches and monasteries promoted the development of Bulgarian art. From a thorny pagan corn-field, overgrown with weeds, Bulgarian turned into a true spiritual nursery and a mighty beacon of Slav culture. The Bulgarian Church already had its own hierarchy, it grew in strength and spiritual maturity, and successfully consolidated the Orthodox faith, piety and education and guided the people towards a creative upsurge. In the 10th century the First Bulgarian State reached the summit of its development. Christianity gave a impetus to the progressive for that time process of feudalization and consolidate the central state power. The Church made its contribution toward the external political stability of the State, towards the creation of a national, religious and spiritual unity, towards the cultural flourishment of the people and the homeland. After the victories at the battlefields at Acheloe (a river near Anchialus) and Katassyrti (near Constantinople), the Bulgarian ruler Prince Simeon proclaimed himself a king. The status of the Church had to correspond to that of the increased international prestige of the Bulgarian State. At the time the theory created in Byzantium predominated that a close relation should exist between Kingdom and Patriarchate: " Imperium sine Patriarcha non staret ". By virtue of that concept, about 919, the Bulgarian Church was proclaimed autocephalous at an ecclesiastical and national council and was elevated to the rank of a Patriarchate. In 927, as a result of a treaty, the relation between Bulgaria and Byzantium improved. As can be seen from the historical source "Archbishops of Bulgaria"(the so-called Catalogue of Ducange), the autocephalous status of the Bulgarian Church was then recognized and its patriarchal dignity acknowledged. During the second half of the 10th century, following some military and political development, the Bulgarian Patriarchal see was successively moved from the capital Preslav to Dorostol, and then to Triaditsa (Sofia), Voden, Muglen, Prespa, and at the end to Ohrid, the capital of the Western Bulgaria State under King Samouil (976-1014). After the fall of Bulgaria under Byzantium domination (1018), Emperor Basil II acknowledged the autocephalous status of the Archbishopric of Ohrid and by virtue of special charters (royal decrees) set up its boundaries, dioceses, property and other privileges, but deprived it of its Patriarchal title. The second charter of the Emperor and the catalogue of Ducange clearly show that the Archbishopric of Ohrid was the successor and continuator of the ancient Bulgarian Patriarchate. In spite of the fact that it had been under different political rules (those of Byzantium, of the Latin Empire, of Bulgarians, Serbs, Turks), its autocephalous status was respected for almost eight centuries - until its unlawful destruction in 1767. Despite of the fact that it passed along a road of serious trials and that for a long time it was guided by a foreign clergy, the Archbishopric of Ohrid successfully carried out its church mission, kept up the Slav liturgy, made its contribution towards the development of Slav literature and strengthened the political consciousness of its flock, and then later on it served as a banner to the fighter for independent Bulgarian Church. As a results of the successful uprising led by the brothers Peter end Assen (1185-1186), the foundation of the Second Bulgarian State were laid with Turnovo as its capital. Due to the bonds of continuity between the religious centers of Preslav and Ohrid and mainly to the principle of linking up the sovereignty of the State with the autocephality of the Church, both the clergy and the believing people in Bulgaria striven for the restoration of the Bulgarian Patriarchate. At the beginning an independent archbishopric was established in Turnovo (1186). Soon steps were taken for its recognition, according to the existing canonical order, and for raising it to the rank of a Patriarchate. As a result of the connections of the Bulgarian King Kaloyan (1203-1204) with the Pope, which he had established mainly with a political purpose, the first Archbishop of Turnovo, Vassily, was proclaimed Primate by Pope Innocent III. His title was "Primate and Archbishop of all Bulgaria and Wallachia". The Church of Bulgaria consolidated its position both in external and internal affairs. Soon conditions were created for the general recognition of its autocephalous status and for elevating it to a Patriarchate. In 1235 a big Church Council was convened in the town of Lampsakos presided over by Patriarch Germanos II of Constantinople. Many Greek and Bulgarian church dignitaries, abbots of monasteries and monks from Mount Athos took part in it. With the consent of all Eastern Patriarchs the council confirmed the Patriarchal dignity of the Bulgarian Church. Headed by distinguished primates, it was well organized, had a large diocese, was active and has in general left behind a bright trance in history. Under the wing of the Bulgarian Patriarchate the Turnovo literary and educational school was organized whose representatives were such outstanding men of learning and enlightenment as St. Theodosy of Turnovo, St. Patriarch Euthymy and a host of other eminent scholars. Thus it became a zealous champion of the cause of the Ohrid and Preslav schools. Considerable upsurge was noted in the field of literature, architecture, painting, etc. Religious and theological literature flourished. The greatest writer and scholar, exemplary clergyman and ardent patriot was Patriarch Euthymy of Turnovo (died ca. 1404). After the fall of Turnovo under Ottoman domination (1393) and Patriarch Euthymy was sent into exile, the autocephalous church organization was destroyed once again. The Bulgarian diocese was subordinated to the Constantinople Patriarchate. The other Bulgarian religious center - Ohrid - managed to survive a few centuries longer (until 1767), as a stronghold of faith and piety. III. The Church a the protector of the Bulgarian people during the five-centuries-long political and spiritual yoke At the end of the 14th century the Bulgarian people lost its political and spiritual independence. The hard condition of this double subjugation hampered their cultural end political development. The suppression, the merciless exploitation and the atrocities compelled thousand of Bulgarians, along with the majority of the intelligentsia who survived, to emigrate to Wallachia, Moldavia, Russia, Serbia and Austria. Mass-scale emigration of Bulgarian from their motherland were frequent after the uprising, and after each one of the Russia-Turkish Wars. Many people were converted to the Islam by force, banned from their home and killed by the Ottoman oppressors. Thus for instance, by order of the Grand Vizier Mehmed Kuprulu the Chepino Bulgarians were Mohammedanized in 1657. Methody Draginov, a priest of the village of Korova, informs that those who refused to accept the Islam were killed, while the houses of those who fled to the woods were burnt down. In the 16th and 17th centuries many Bulgarian from the districts of Lovech, Teteven, Svishtov, Nikopol and Turnovo were Mohammedanized in the same way. The Deliorman region, which in the 16th century was still Bulgarian, after the 17th century acquired a Mohammedan aspect through colonization and forceful conversion of the Christian population to the Islam. Thus the Christians merged with the dense Ottoman masses and lost their native language. During the 17th century many other Bulgarians from Razlog, Kroupnik and from the valley of the River Bregalnitsa suffered a similar fate. In the 18th century the population of the villages of Turnovti and Cherkovna in the Preslav District was also Mohammedanized. Part of the Mohammedanized Bulgarians lost for ever their national consciousness and their native language. Another part, the so-called Pomaks or Bulgarian-Mohammedans, preserved their native Bulgarian language and customs, but lost for centuries the consciousness of being part of the Bulgarian people. The conquerors did not spare even the Christian sanctuaries and the cultural monuments. In Turnovo the Patriarchal Cathedral church of the Holy Ascension and the St. Petka Court Church were destroyed. The conquerors of Turnovo Bulgaria razed to the ground 18 Boyar churches at the Trapesitsa Hill. The Church of the 40 Holy Martyrs was turned into a mosque, while the Church of the Holy Virgin in Turnovo was reconstructed as a Turkish bath. In the Plovdiv diocese Chepino Pomaks destroyed 218 churches and 33 monasteries. In the town of Vidin the Cathedral Church of the Holy Virgin was destroyed. Many Churches in various parts of the country were turned into mosques. The blow dealt on the Bulgarian church organization was also a heavy one, since it was made subordinate to the Patriarchate of Constantinople. The Greek clergy pursued an assimilatory policy. At the beginning the high Bulgarian clerics were replaced by Greek ones, who officiated the churches and celebrated mass in the Greek language of which the Bulgarian population was completely ignorant. They opened Greek schools which conducted assimilatory activities. Such schools were organized in Turnovo, Svishtov, Kotel, Sliven, Plovdiv, Andrianople, Strouga, Bitolya, Voden, Stroumitsa, Melnik, Seres and other towns. The Ottoman conquerors granted extensive civic and judicial rights to the Patriarch of Constantinople. He became a high-ranking officer of the Sultan and the head of all Orthodox Christian in the Ottoman Empire. Civic and judicial function were also granted to the diocesan metropolitans, mostly of Greek origin, who imposed on the Bulgarian population heavy taxes which they collected by force with the help of the local authorities. The tormented Bulgarian people were eager to have their own independent church and to enjoy political freedom for which they fought whit might and main. During this hard time the Church proved to be the staunchest defender of the faith of the ancestors, the protector of the national spirit and the propagator or patriotism. Among those who took part in the first Turnovo uprising, organized in 1598,were some high church dignitaries, such as Metropolitan Dionissy of Turnovo and the bishops Theophan of Lovech, Jeremiah of Rouse, Spiridon of Shoumen and Methody of Roman (of Thracia), as well as 23 priests from Nikopol and 12 priests from Turnovo. In the second half of the 16th century Archbishop Athanassy of Ohrid was prominent as an organizer of the liberation movement. During the 17th century the Roman-Catholic Priest Peter Parchevich organized an uprising against the Ottoman authorities. In 1737 Metropolitan Simeon of Samokov was hanged for his patriotic activities. The Church gave quite a numbers of martyrs for faith and kin. Stunning are the feats of St. Georgi of Kratovo (+1515), St. Nikolay of Sofia (+1515), Bishop Vissarion of Smolen (+1670), Damaskin of Gabrovo (+1771), St. Zlata of Muglen (+1795), St. John the Bulgarian (+1814), St. Ignaty of Stara Zagora (+1814), St. Onouphry of Gabrovo (+1818) and of many others. The monasteries played a great part in the preservation of the Orthodox faith and the national consciousness of the Bulgarian people during the year of foreign domination. Scattered all over the Bulgarian lands, the monasteries satisfied the religious demands of the people in the place, where they were neither churches, not priest. They preserved the Christian and national consciousness, they taught the population how to write and read in their schools, they trained the future priest, propagated piety and carried out literary and education activities. This was true especially of the monasteries of Zograph and of Hilendar on Mt. Athos, of the Rila Monastery, the Troyan, Etropole, Dryanovo and Cherepish Monasteries, as well as of the Kouklen Monastery near Assenovgrad, the Lessnovo, Glozhene, Dragalevtsi and other monasteries. Famous scholars of that epoch were Vladislav Grammatik (15th century), Dimiter Kantakouzin (15th century), Father Peyo (16th century), Mathey Grammatik (16th century), Father Todor of Vratsa (18th century) and others. Besides them traveling monks (taxidiotes) toured the country, opened cell schools, taught the illiterate people how to read and write and carried out educative activities. They were the predecessors of the Bulgarian National Revival. An untiring taxidiote and scholar was Yossif Bradati (Joseph the Bearded) (18th century). During the yoke primary school attached to churches and monasteries were opened in Tryavna, Elena, Vratsa, Gabrovo, Sofia, Plovdiv, Pirot, Skopie, Samokov, Kalofer, Sopot, Koprivshtitsa, in the villages in the Strandja Mountain and elsewhere. A series of uprisings against the oppressors were organized in the monasteries. The first ardent call for a national awakening came also from a monastery. St. Paissy of Hilendar (second half of the 18th century) was the first who headed the Bulgarian National Revival. The program for an independent church and political freedom he outlined in his "Slav-Bulgarian History". This wonderful book attracted other active workers for a national awakening. Among the followers of St. Paissy were the following clergymen: St. Sophrony of Vratsa (1739-1813), hieromonk Spiridon of Gabrovo (18th century), hieromonk Yoakim k*rchovski (+1820), hieromonk Kiril Peichinovich (+1845) and others. The power of resistance of the people was stirred to action. A struggle for religious and national independence began, which brought IV. The Bulgarian Exarchate (Third Kingdom of Bulgaria) For several centuries the Bulgarian Church was under the jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Constantinople. The Greek Church organization, in which the Bulgarian were included, and the fact that the conquerors regarded as one the religion and the nationality of the Bulgarian living in the Ottoman Empire, resulted in due time in an association of the Bulgarians with the Greek, so that they became to be known under the common name of "Roum-Milet", i.e. Greek people. Thus the Bulgarian gradually ceased to be considered a separate nation. For five centuries the conquerors directed their principle attacks against the Orthodox-Christian faith of the Subjugated population and tried to assimilate them. The firm abiding of the Bulgarian people by the faith of their ancestors helped them to preserve their nationality. The spiritual strain of this long period of firm resistance raised many people to the glory of sanctity. The Bulgarian people, linked in destiny and historic mission with the other Balkan nation, made their contribution towards arresting the Islamic invasion into Western Europe, which would have had unfavorable consequences for its development and would have delayed the Renaissance. That is why the part played by the Bulgarian people in this respect has an all-European and hence a world-wide cultural and historic significance. In the second half of the 18th century, along with the economic revival of the Bulgarian people, the Bulgarian monk, St. Paissy of Hilendar, laid the foundation of the Bulgarian National Revival with his book "Slav-Bulgarian History". St. Paissy pointed out that the restoration of the independent Bulgarian Church, which would mean the recognition of the Bulgarian population as a Bulgarian nationality and as a Bulgarian nation, separate from the Greeks, was the first and absolutely necessary prerequisite for the restoration of the independent Bulgarian State. The cultural and educative activities of Bishop Sophrony of Vratsa gave a mighty impetus of the realization of this idea. When all the strata of the Bulgarian people embraced the idea, the struggle broke out for the restoration of the independent Bulgarian Church and against the power of the Greek clergy. In the course of four decades the Bulgarian population of Moesia, Thrace and Macedonia united this struggle in one ethnic body with a well-defined national consciousness as a Bulgarian nation. In 1870, by a decree (firman) of the Sultan, the Ottoman government restored the once unlawfully destroyed Bulgarian Patriarchate under the name of "Bulgarian Exarchate". According to art. 10 of the firman, it included in its diocese all Bulgarian Regions. Thus the conquerors officially recognized before the world the Bulgarian nation and authoritatively determined their ethnic boundaries. The Bulgarian Church thus won the international juridical recognition of this nation before the world and consolidated it ethnically, spiritually, culturally, historically, territorially and, to a certain degree, also politically. In 1871 a Council of the Church and the People took place with representative of the dioceses in North Bulgaria, Thrace and Macedonia. A total of 12 clerics, among them 5 prelates, and 36 laymen took part in it. The Statute of the Bulgarian Exarchate was adopted. Both the Council and the Statute were profoundly penetrated by the synod principle. The Statute established two supreme organs for the central management of the Church: The Holy Synod, consisting only of prelates, with a competence in purely ecclesiastical affairs, and the Supreme Secular Exarchate Council, comprising of six laymen under the chairmanship of the Exarch, with a competence in the non-religious affairs; for the diocesan management - a prelate and a mixed council of three clerics and 5-7 laymen; for the vicariates (church country) - a vicar and a mixed council of three clerics and 5-7 laymen; for the perish - the perish priest aided by the entire church community. The Statue installed the electoral principle: the respective principle organs of church management were appointed to their posts only by the way of election (by the bishop, the clerics and the people). Beside their direct church work it entrusted these organs with schoolmanaging activities, with cultural and educational work and social-ethical activities, which they developed on a large scale. Freed from outer dependence, the Bulgarian Exarchate devoted itself wholly to a useful service of the people. It gave, in fact, the first political education to the Bulgarian people in a spirit of profound patriotism. Its diocese became the criterion for the Great Powers in determining the ethical boundaries of the Bulgarian people immediately after the April Uprising (1876). Until 1913 it governed quite a number of dioceses, in Northern and Southern Bulgaria, in Macedonia and Adrianople Thrace. Only in Macedonia and in the Andrianople Region alone the Bulgarian Exarchate disposed of over seven dioceses with prelates and eight more with acting chairmen in charge, with 38 vicariates, 1 218 parishes and 1 212 parish priest, 64 monasteries and 202 chapels, as well as 1 373 schools with 2 266 teachers and 78 854 pupils. After World War I, by virtue of the peace treaties, the Bulgarian Exarchate was deprived of its dioceses in Macedonia and Aegean Thrace. As early as 1913 Exarch Joseph I transferred his offices from Istanbul to Sofia. After His death (1915) the Church was for long time not in a position to elect its regular head. It occupied itself instead with its direct task to intensify its educational and social-ethical activities. Religious printed publication were issued regularly, the distribution of the Holy Bible and of theological literature was increased and the struggle against foreign religious propaganda was intensified. Prebroi gi do tuka iminjata i datite? Eve uste: c. Eastern Spirituality--several common factors held the churches of Bulgaria, Serbia, Russia and Greece together: their monastically inspired spirituality and their artistic traditions, which is summed up in icons. The holy mountain of Athos was covered with monasteries representing all of the Orthodox nationalities. After staying at one of their respective monasteries the monks would return to their own country and it was quite usual for bishops and patriarchs to be chosen from them. Such saints as St. Gregory of Sinai & St. Theodosius (14th Century) from Bulgaria; St. Sava from Serbia; St. Sergius (1314-1392 A.D.) founder of the monastery of the Holy Trinity in the heart of the forests of Moscow and Gregory Palamas (1296-1359 A.D.) a monk from Athos who became Archbishop of Thessalonica. Many monasteries have preserved their mosaics, frescoes and icons to this day from the l4th and 15th centuries. http://frterry.org/History/Chapter_10/Chap.10%20The%20Autumn%20of%20Christendom.htm Kade e Makedonskata crkva? (Ili i ova e pisano za ugoda na Sofia)

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WHERE THE f**k is bulgaria on the map?

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
"Pak zboruvas za nesto sto ima ili nema Bugarsko vo sebe a ima sosema drugo znacenie deneska." Objasni mi znacenijata, ha ha ha ha.... Ednas "umetnicki- nemas dokazi" ednas "copy-paste" – ne moze da ti se ugodi. Komentarot ti na postiranoto e bla-bla-bla.... pate vo visoka treva.

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Originally posted by Christian
ajdeeeeeeee ama se nakotija bugarive ko opstanokot da im e vo prasanje. pa odozgora pocnaa i referati da pisuvaat. Eve jas uste ednas ke go quote dj shema

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WHERE THE f**k is bulgaria on the map?

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Originally posted by SoVrSeN
santanico da te razocaram.....Bugarija ke vlezi pred nas u evropska unija paaaaa cija istorija ke ja priznavaat nashata ili nivnata....vo Evropa Aleksandar Makedonski e Makedonec ama se znae deka Makedonija vo toa vreme bila GRCIJA pa istoto ke bidi i sega....pozdrav i do tebe

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Originally posted by Istvan
Ha, ja najdev Bugarija![8D][8D][8D] [url]http://www.weatherhub.com/global/bu_map.htm[/url] Sega pa ne vidim Makedonija... [:(][:(][:(]

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Originally posted by Duhot na Vovata
Se obrna seta pa na razpravane za gluposti. Map ili koj sto videl... Ako od postiranata istorija na hristijanstvoto na Bugarskata Pravoslavna Crkva ne e jasno da taa ne bila crkva na nekakvo neosoznaeni masi, znaci slepci imame ovde ili cimentovi glavi. I pazete ova e samo Crkovnata strana na prasanjieto. Ima celi listi od povornici, vostanija, voevodi niz tekot na ropstvoto koi se boreli za svododa ne na nekakvi bezimeni luge, toku jasno i kategoriceski iznasnei kako Bugarski. Za zal nemalo togaz krvni probi da im zemat i da vidat kolku od niv Mongoli i kolku Turki i kolku svoveni. NEMALO MANU da gi osvesti. Aj so pocit na site, kakvi i da se - BEZ DOKAZI.

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Originally posted by Russia Znachi ima edno mnogo vazno pravilo pri vodenje spor - se vika DOKAZUVANJE! 1. Faktot deka nekoi saka da sprechi nekogo da premine edna reka ABSOLUTNO potvrduva shto toi nekoi se naodja na edna strana ot istata reka i e vo MOZNOST da ja premine. 2. Ako nekoi tvrdi deka istiot koi shto moral da ja premine rekata veke ZIVEEL ot drugata strana na rekata mora da go DOKAZE! 3. PAK ke povtoram i drugiot vazen moment povrzan so vostanieto - vostanali VLASI i BALGARI. Tochka. Ako NEKAKVI (DORI I MAL BROI) kumani ziveeli na teritorijata na Vizantija vo vreme na vostanieto nema nika